"i don't think anyone would count aloud unless recomended in training."

It doesn't matter if you are counting silently, it will still prevent you from fully listening to the music, because you will be wasting attention on listening to your own inner voice.

"What that does if both are counting, which is an excercise. It will makes sure both parties are stepping at the same time."

Except of course in dances where you are not supposed to step on the beats. There a count won't do you much good - partnering is about feeling the same interpreation, not about the mathematics of counting beats.

"I think you can see what I am driving at. Stepping to a beat. Take the beat away and we have nothing to step to."

Not necessarily. Some dances are beat-based, but many, especially in the standard are not based on beats, instead they are based on per-measure feelings. Even when the beats are present, you don't actually dance them, instead you are supposed to dance the big picture.

For the most obvious example, thing about VW... you had better not by trying to dance the beats there, instead you should be dancing one impetus per measure. Feet are such inconsiquential, trivial little details - the dancing is not there, but in the movement of the body.

It seems to be obviouse that you have no idear how to count or listen to the music. If you can hear the beats but ignore them . Why not give a slow three beats instead of two just because you feel like it. If this music is played 28 bars per minute, I think I will spead it up with my dancing to 34 bpm because I feel like it.
You would never admitt that you go out of time. If that is so something within you is aware of the beats and is counting. It could be your partner is the brains behind this setup and keeps you on time maybe. That's counting. That's dancing.
I would shudder to think what you would do with eight bar phrased choreography. If you had a 24 bar group you would have been and already gone. Or maybe not arrived yet at the end of the 24 bars.
There are with todays music 28 bars per minute in the W. and F. So one minute thirty seconds will = 42 bars . With my 24 bar routine repeated would easily take me to end of the music. For those who dont know. in a competition the rule is set at a minute thirty seconds per heat.

You obviously have a problem counting the beats and transfering that information to the feet. Most people are able to do that. Some are not. Anybody who is not able to tap their fingers or hand or foot whilst sitting at a table listening to any kind of music, are in trouble.
I would ask this. One step in a piece of music which has four beats to a bar 1 2 3 4. This could be a Foxtrot with a heel lead. what part of the foot arrives on beat one and what part lowers on beat 2, The whole thing is usually called Slow And, which is two beats of music.
So there again I would ask. How is that one step divided.
If the first beat doesn't register neither will the second and from then on.

"I would ask this. One step in a piece of music which has four beats to a bar 1 2 3 4. This could be a Foxtrot with a heel lead. what part of the foot arrives on beat one and what part lowers on beat 2, The whole thing is usually called Slow And, which is two beats of music.
So there again I would ask. How is that one step divided."

We've already been through this extensively here, but the simple answer is this:

For a slow in a well timed foxtrot, NO part of the foot is placed on beat one. Beat one occurs only a half beat (or on top dancers even less) after the ACTUAL TIME at which the preceding final quick is placed, and is far too early to be placing a new "slow" step.

If a slow, the first step is in fact placed just a hair before BEAT TWO.

(The second step is then right on beat three, and the final quick is on the and after four, OR EVEN LATER on the best dancers)

"If the first beat doesn't register neither will the second and from then on."

Flawed logic, based on a serious misunderstanding of foxtrot. The first beat isn't supposed to register, because foxtrot's classic SQQ figures are not oriented to the beats! Instead, they are oriented as a group to the measure, which is a grouping of beats. Trying to match individual steps to specific places on beats can be done as a mathematical exercise - see above - but it's pointless in terms of trying to dance.

Instead, you have to learn to feel the overall shape of the figure match the overall shape of the measure. You can't match the details because the proper relationship between the details of music and action won't make any sense at all, unless you look at the overall picture.

You are not getting muddled here are you. That it is common among competition dancers to make the Feather Step all quicks. Beat 1. an introduction . Beat 2 first of the Feather and so on.
You said. If a slow, the first step is in fact just placed a hair before BEAT TWO. Wouldn't you call that a quick.
This is competition dancing at the highest level which you or I are not.. I would say it is a fair assumption that most here are not also. How many of these top couples do you see not doing a beat per step on any Weave. Do you see any at all that are not . It would be a bit difficult stepping in between the quicks wouldn't it.
With the top most comperitors they play about with the music in between the beats all the time. If I am told to stay on the supporting leg longer my timing is going to be different compared to somebody who is not. This will be on slows. The quicks will be right with the beat.
It might be worth while pointing out that at the highest level we will only see one Feather Step and that is at the beginning of there performance.
To recap. It is ridiculace to suggest that dancers dance the way you suggest on this site.It would seem that most are not experienced enough. which leaves us with Slow = two beats. a Quick = one beat

"You are not getting muddled here are you. That it is common among competition dancers to make the Feather Step all quicks. Beat 1. an introduction . Beat 2 first of the Feather and so on."

You sure have a short memory! You already tried that argument not more than a few months ago, and were corrected in your flawed argument then as now. All quicks is NOT WHAT IS BEING DESCRIBED.

"You said. If a slow, the first step is in fact just placed a hair before BEAT TWO. Wouldn't you call that a quick."

No. I'd call it the proper execution of a "slow" in the dance called foxtrot.

"This is competition dancing at the highest level which you or I are not.."

Nonetheless, I'm basing my argument on measurement of the actual dancing of leading foxtrot dancers, people like ANDREW SINKINSON.

"How many of these top couples do you see not doing a beat per step on any Weave."

A series of all quicks, as in a weave, will indeed have a different step-to-beat realationship than a more common SQQ sequence would. And if you were paying more attention, you'd know that I've pointed that out this weak, as well as several other times within the past few months.

"It would be a bit difficult stepping in between the quicks wouldn't it."

No, it's fairly simple actually. The pace of a series of quicks is one step per beat-quanitity-of-time, but that does not NECESSARILY mean that one step will land squarely on each beat. And the last quick (the one preceding the slow of the next figure) of course will land AT LEAST A HALF BEAT AFTER ITS NOMINAL BEAT.

Since I know you're going to argue with that yet again, I'll just quote what Jonathan said to you last time you tried to claim that was anything other than orthadox technique:

Quickstep:

"And who teaches that a quick, which is followed by a slow delays its placement at least a half a beat into the time of that slow."

Waltz123:

"I hate to burst your bubble there, Quickstep, but just about everybody in the competitive dance world, dating back at least 10-15 years now."

I'd merely add that I'm pretty sure the best dancers have been doing it that way a lot longer, it's just taken time for the word of what really happens to spread - no suprise really given how fiercely some will cling to their mistaken ideas about it...

Do you really beleive that any dancer is changing the timing on their step conciously so that on some steps they will not arrive on the beat and on others they will. Having done that do you really believe that they could replicate it at will everytime.
So you are arriving on the first step of your Feather Step a hairs breath before the second beat. Is that a micro second. Are you consistant. Is this on every slow. What happens on the slow after a Feather Finish. Do you hold the quick turning it into almost a slow and turning the slow into almost a quick. Really who puts these weird ideas in your head. But anyway for somebody who doesn't count how could you possibly manage it. We could go right through the card here. What happens to the first of the Natural. Do we arrive one micro second before the second beat. Why don't we just switch the music off.
I'll tell you what. Why dont you talk me through a Natural Turn beat by beat.

"Do you really beleive that any dancer is changing the timing on their step conciously so that on some steps they will not arrive on the beat and on others they will."

It's clear that they do in fact achieve such timings.

As to how they do it, if you'd actually read my posts you'd see that I pointed out that they could NOT BE DOING IT BY COUNTING BEAT FRACTIONS. Instead, they do it by MATCHING THE OVERALL MOVEMENT TO THE OVERALL MEASURE. They don't sweat the details of what fraction of an action belongs on what fraction of a beat. Instead, the dance the BIG PICTURE... and they do it BY FEELING THE MUSIC AND THE DANCE.

"Having done that do you really believe that they could replicate it at will everytime."

Because it's actually done BY FEEL, it remains accurate as long as the dancers feelings are trustworthy. Developing such feelings is the task of the student, maintaining them the tast of the more advanced student.

"What happens on the slow after a Feather Finish."

The same thing. How can you remember nothing of all of the answers you were given to the same questions when you asked them a few months ago?

"Really who puts these weird ideas in your head."

These wierd ideas are the STANDARD OF PERFORMANCE amongst adequately educated dancers. As Jonathan said, hate to burst your bubble, but it's what everyone is actually doing.

"What happens to the first of the Natural."

The same thing as the first of the f.finish, and all the other SQQ figures...

"Why don't we just switch the music off.
I'll tell you what."

"Why dont you talk me through a Natural Turn beat by beat."

Because it would be counterproductive to look at those details - they will only confuse you. Instead, you should be looking to match the BODY SWING (NOT THE FOOTSTEPS) to the MUSIC.

Here, let me prove my point:

Footsteps to beats method:

Land step on beat 1.78
Land step two on beat 3.00
Land step three on beat 4.6

What a mess... so lets try the way it's actually done:

Match your BODY swing to the music, so that your acceleration and drive from one figure into the next matches the music's drive from one meaure to the next.

See how much simpler that is?

"Do you really beleive that any dancer is changing the timing on their step conciously so that on some steps they will not arrive on the beat and on others they will."

It's clear that they do in fact achieve such timings.

As to how they do it, if you'd actually read my posts you'd see that I pointed out that they could NOT BE DOING IT BY COUNTING BEAT FRACTIONS. Instead, they do it by MATCHING THE OVERALL MOVEMENT TO THE OVERALL MEASURE. They don't sweat the details of what fraction of an action belongs on what fraction of a beat. Instead, the dance the BIG PICTURE... and they do it BY FEELING THE MUSIC AND THE DANCE.

"Having done that do you really believe that they could replicate it at will everytime."

Because it's actually done BY FEEL, it remains accurate as long as the dancers feelings are trustworthy. Developing such feelings is the task of the student, maintaining them the tast of the more advanced student.

"What happens on the slow after a Feather Finish."

The same thing. How can you remember nothing of all of the answers you were given to the same questions when you asked them a few months ago?

"Really who puts these weird ideas in your head."

These wierd ideas are the STANDARD OF PERFORMANCE amongst adequately educated dancers. As Jonathan said, hate to burst your bubble, but it's what everyone is actually doing.

"What happens to the first of the Natural."

The same thing as the first of the f.finish, and all the other SQQ figures...

"Why don't we just switch the music off.
I'll tell you what."

Because what is being described is how to dance a foxtrot that actually matches the music. If instead you try to put steps squarely on beats, you would BE DANCING OFF TIME.

"Why dont you talk me through a Natural Turn beat by beat."

Because it would be counterproductive to look at those details - they will only confuse you. Instead, you should be looking to match the BODY SWING (NOT THE FOOTSTEPS) to the MUSIC.

Here, let me prove my point:

Footsteps to beats method:

Land step one on beat 1.78 (or whatever it was)
Land step two on beat 3.00
Land step three on beat 4.6

What a mess... so lets try the way it's actually done:

Match your BODY swing to the music, so that your acceleration and drive from one figure into the next matches the music's drive from one meaure to the next.

Both explanations are accurate, but the first one is USELESS. Only the second can actually help you.

I think you would be far happier counting your Foxtrot by steps and not beats. 123 123. Even then you would be counting four beats to a bar. I wouldn't try it on a Weave though.
If you want to count the timing of a Feather Step in a competition you only have one chance and that is right at the beginning of the dancers performance. Count it in any competition and see if they aren't using all quicks.
I looked again at the final of a IDSF competition from St Petersburg in Russia, where each couple dance solo. One couple I couldn't count because the comentator was talking over the music. The other five all started with a Feather Step and they all did the introduction on beat 1 a quick . followed by 2 3 4 all quicks